why are these options not available (grey) in Anti-Spam?

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why are these options not available (grey) in Anti-Spam?

Postby carboncow » Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:32 pm

See screenshot.

I'm trying to figure out how to get items tagged as spam from hitting the inbox of users and the only option I see are the two options in the Anti-Spam Server for MS Exchange "settings" options called:

"move message to the junk folder"

and it's greyed out and not available to click.

This is a default install of AVG BE (with exchange support) on a clean in stall of SBS 2008 and I can find no information to explain why these options are not available. I would assume all my clinets get the MS Outlook plug to help manage this functionality.

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Re: why are these options not available (grey) in Anti-Spam?

Postby sc123 » Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:24 am

Because you're looking at the Server components - the Outlook plugin is for the workstation.
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Re: why are these options not available (grey) in Anti-Spam?

Postby paulbrainard » Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:21 am

I too am supporting a network where users are complaining about emails marked as [SPAM] showing up in their inbox instead of going to the junk folder (some do however - not sure if that is Outlook/Exchange identifying them on its own. . . .) They are saying this is since upgrading to version 9 but I'm not sure if it may have been like that before & they only started noticing after all the other problems we've had with it.

Since avg advertises that it filters spam at the server level - and since these areserver-hosted outlook mailboxes - it makes sense to me that this setting would be under "server components." In any case, you do see this option from the workstation (confusing though it is that something called server components is managed from the client interface, not to mention editable by all users) and moreover, the option doesn't work!

I have submitted a case to avg support about it, I will post here when I get something useful out of them, although from past experience I expect I will have to download and run avgrunner a few times and then email them several log files, and maybe un & reinstall it all, before they tell me that's how it's designed to work. . . .
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Re: why are these options not available (grey) in Anti-Spam?

Postby paulbrainard » Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:24 am

Classic - at least they were fast about it. But no mention whatsoever of how to actually do what I am asking, i.e. move emails marked as spam to the junk folder:
======
Dear Paul,

Thank you for your email.

We would like to inform you that the mentioned settings are for AVG Anti-Spam for personal use. The AVG Anti-Spam for Exchange uses similar interface in order to be user friendly.

We would like to recommend you to check the settings for "Enable on-line checking" and "Query RBL servers".
Also you can run a training of AVG Anti-Spam via the button "Train Anti-Spam" and follow the wizard.

In case there are any further questions feel free to contact us again.

Best regards,

Danail Daskalov
AVG Customer Services
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Re: why are these options not available (grey) in Anti-Spam?

Postby carboncow » Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:27 am

Paul,

Make sure you change the indention in the AVG server admin to something like "POSSIBLE SPAM" or "AVG SPAM" and you can confirm that it's coming from AVG as Exchange 2007 Spam control (assuming you have it going) will inject just "SPAM" too into the subject. This way I could figure out which system is doing what and where...

Also to my disappointment but it seems some functionality for spam management with AVG is not only on the server side...that some features can be tweaked on the client PC and how it interacts with Outlook. My users are not "sharp" and I really don't want them tweaking (nor do I think they should) on the client side...but it could solve some issues.

AVG should have a quarantine option like everyone else where the admin can set the thresholds better and the catch and release system.

EDIT: I should add that training on the server side is not very easy. You have to figure out how to move all the HAM/SPAM to a public folder that you can export (somewhere) and then scan. Not very easy IMHO but the functionality is a bit better ont he client side...but again I don't have users that are sharp enough to do this and I"m only one tech supporting 40 users (uck!) so (me) doing it on each client is not an option.
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Re: why are these options not available (grey) in Anti-Spam?

Postby paulbrainard » Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:07 pm

Thanks for the pointers. Just got this second reply from tech support after I pointed out that they didn't answer my actual question:
==============
Dear customer,

Thank you for your email.

In order to find a fix to the mentioned issue, please proceed this way:-

Main Screen -> Main Menu Tools -> Advanced settings -> branch Anti-Spam -> Settings

Check the Move message to the junk folder (Microsoft Outlook plugin only) box if you want the detected spam messages to be automatically moved to the "Junk Mail" folder. Please note that this feature is only valid for MS Outlook.

However, if this does not work, we would like to request some additional information.
===========
. . . Followed by the usual laundry list of troubleshooting steps. Of course, the users have this option already checked but it obviously isn't working. I can't ask them all to walk through the whole avgrunner business - and since I'm generally not onsite (and we have users in various cities anyway), and the anti-spam workstation component isn't installed on the server for remote-desktop users (that was a whole tangled mess to sort out. . . ) I can't really even wade through it myself. So I'll end up asking a few power users to do the diagnostics which get sent in to avg, and then a variety of different techs will be responding to a variety of different users who don't have time to keep sending them more details and I'll be trying to tie it all together. . . do I sound frustrated?? Honestly, I am completely done recommending AVG to any of my clients. Version 7 worked pretty well, but every .5 upgrade since has been a nightmare and they seem to have a philosophy of constantly making things more complicated and confusing rather than less. I have even ditched my paid personal license and switched to Malwarebytes on my own PCs. . . but I digress. I'll let you know if I get it working, and how. . .
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Re: why are these options not available (grey) in Anti-Spam?

Postby paulbrainard » Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:50 pm

Also I'm confused about the relationship between the similar settings in the server admin console ("shared settings for stations"), the individual workstation settings, and the "server components" settings - are there really 3 different placees to specify these things?? What takes precedence over what? And who all is affected by the server component settings on the workstation? Or by the server component settings in the avg client installed on the server???
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Re: why are these options not available (grey) in Anti-Spam?

Postby carboncow » Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:46 pm

I've very upset now that I selected AVG as a server solution...I only went this direction since it was a simple install on a SBS 2008 server and other solutions were very complicated and caused issues.

In some aspects this is robust but as you stated the central admin is confusing and leaves to much on the client side...plus the Outlook Plug really doesn't do us much good when half our users are doing the web outlook (OAW)!!

I'll keep plugging ahead but I seem to ask more questions then I get answers from AVG or any forum. Their support is OK...just not very complete.

EDIT: Haha! and email confirmations from this forum get tagged as spam in both AVG as well as with MS Exchange!
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Re: why are these options not available (grey) in Anti-Spam?

Postby sc123 » Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:38 pm

EDIT: Haha! and email confirmations from this forum get tagged as spam in both AVG as well as with MS Exchange!


This concerns me...
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Re: why are these options not available (grey) in Anti-Spam?

Postby carboncow » Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:46 pm

It's ironic...I did a bit more research and it appears it was Exchange who did it. Since there system is "seal" we don't get much reason why something is tagged. I use the two default RBL (spamcop and spamhaus) but again...I have no idea what tagged it. Obviously you know know if RBL were to blame from a quick look on mxtoolbox.com...

This just proves my point why MS Exchange and AVG to a lessor extent are weak solutions for power users and novices alike. It's freaking 2010 and anti-spam and anti-virus shouldn't be so difficult. 4 years ago we has an Astaro Firewall that was expensive my impressive on how well it worked, how robust the system was and it really could allow a slop IT (like me) to ommit antivirus at the server and client level...it was that good. Now I'm kicking myself for getting caught up in SBS 2008 and AVG!
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Re: why are these options not available (grey) in Anti-Spam?

Postby sc123 » Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:13 pm

AVG may not have the best Anti-Spam solution on the market, but I think you'll find that no solution is a good one. They all use the same RBL server, so it's just the heuristics that's different. Bottom line - you can't stop SPAM, you can only limit it. The best way to protect yourself is to make sure you don't list your e-mail addresses publicly on the web in any way, and tell users not to register with any site using their e-mail account unless it's 100% trustworthy and business related.

I have a customer who runs AVG Anti-Spam, CA Security Anti-Spam (formerly QURB), Outlook's filters and Check Point's Anti-Spam and he still gets inundated. Of course you can crank up the heuristics and block almost all SPAM, but you block other legit items, too.
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Re: why are these options not available (grey) in Anti-Spam?

Postby carboncow » Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:25 pm

and why I got the gurus attention...

How do I turn AVG off on a client for the install of software that insists this must occur? I'm logged into the client as a domain admin but still cannot get the services to shut down (grayed out).

I'm downloading the manual again so I may have an answer shortly...is there something I can do on the server side as I see nothing in the contextual menu to stop a station...

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Re: why are these options not available (grey) in Anti-Spam?

Postby paulbrainard » Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:54 pm

My problems with AVG haven't been with how well it stops viruses or spam - seems to be OK though not the best. True, it is a complicated and changing world out there. But the program itself is becoming a huge problem, I can't even tell you how many times I've had to uninstall & reinstall it on this server, not to mention almost all of the workstations, for various reasons ranging from mobile devices not getting updated by Exchange to Outlook taking 10 minutes or more to open. Poor instructions on which components to install & where, in what order, how to configure them, and apparantly sloppy installer programming are all recurring issues. It truly makes me very reluctant to place any confidence in the software's ability to find and remove viruses - it can't even uninstall itself properly!

Their tech support has admittedly gotten a lot more responsive in the last year or two, but it is SO frustrating to have to go through the whole routine of running diagnostics, sending screenshots, uninstalling, reinstalling, uninstalling manually, reinstalling again, etc etc etc until they finally offer their remote assistance and a tech spends 5 minutes changing one undocumented registry setting that solves the problem - after I had been asking for that exact solution the whole time! That is a true story. And now I'm in the middle of it again. I am a freelancer and I feel terrible because I have charged this particular client several times more in my time troubleshooting things like this than they paid for the software or should have paid to have it installed. Of course I end up only billing for a fraction of my actual time spent. At this rate I will go out of business if I continue to support AVG installations.
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Re: why are these options not available (grey) in Anti-Spam?

Postby carboncow » Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:07 am

That does suck. I just ranted on another forum about my concerns. The hardcore techs always seem to support complicated systems that break with every update as they have 100 hours a week to focus on every detail. As a small business hours who is probably the most IT proficient guy in a town of 50,000 I simply don't have the time to become an expert on every piece of software we use from a tech level. I quit using VAR due to the fact I was paying to much money and not getting good results (like you state) that ultimately may not be there fault all the time.

I hope I don't get your problem of reinstals.

I was just called a "big dummy" on another well respected forum for selecting a solution that does both anti-spam and anti-virus in the same tool. Silly me to think that SBS 2008 (an all in one package) should also include these functionality and if they don't be able to work with a single 3rd party solution. AVG is not alone...everyone hates their anti-virus/spam solutions. I've researched and tried many of them. The only reason i went with AVG was it's simple install and user interface...I couldn't even figure out a few of them!

As long as I don't have your issues I"m sure I"ll be fine, it's just a shame we get twice as much email as we did before with our simple hmailserver system and this is with outlook plugins, desktop anti-stuff and double server side stuff. I hate exchange...
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Re: why are these options not available (grey) in Anti-Spam?

Postby paulbrainard » Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:43 am

Sorry if this thread has turned into a big slam on AVG. . . to get back to the original topic, it turns out that the "move messages to junk folder" is grayed out on the server because it is instead implemented on the user side, either in their individual workstation/client settings or in the "shared user settings" in the admin console on the server. This doesn't explain why the setting appears at all under "server components" in the client on the server (if you can follow that.)

Now my problem, and maybe others', is that regardless of where it is the setting doesn't work since the 9.0 upgrade - I guess that's why we went looking for it. I am on my second round of AVG tech support asking for runner.avgdx files from affected workstations. I'm not sure if they lost the first set I sent or if repeatedly asking me to send more stuff is supposed to give the impression they are helping me somehow, but it feels like I am having to jump through hoops to prove to them that the problem is happening. If they are hoping that it will be too much trouble and I will just go away, they may be right.
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